ABC.com has two new high-quality videos from Comic-Con:
Test Montage is the Dharma Volunteer Assessment Test, with some responses from those who took it at Comic-con.
- What three words describe you?
- What animal do you identify with?
- Describe your first kiss in three words.
- Who is your constant?
- What would you sacrifice to stay alive?
- What makes you cry?
- You just stole a sick child's toy. Why?
- Why does the female Black Widow spider eat the male after mating?
- A tortoise is on its back in the sun. You're not helping. Why?
- What does terror sound like?
Secret Candle is the RuckusGuy / Pierre Chang video shown during the Lost panel.
Here are a couple of the "static" audio clips. I can't make anything out, but maybe you can...
Static 1:
Static 2:
Thanks to Zort here's the name Pierre Chang calls when the baby is crying. What do you hear; Stanislar, Stanislav, Dammit Laura, or maybe something else?
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First ?
Do we know where the videos came from ? i.e. are they official ?
Those videos from Dark UFO are from abc.com, where they have a lot of Comic Con stuff up for you to peruse as well. They are official :D.
I should add at ABC they are called Secret Candle and Test Monatge because they are in the whole video stream area.
Thanks Ange, I've just seen your comment in the previous comments post as well.
I don't know Tapdawg's face, can you describe which one he is ?
Sorry, I'm being dense today, there is only one person in that section !
Hi Zort! Tapdawg was the guy with dark, spiked hair that said his constant was his mother. I just think that's cool that he made it into the official montage with the likes of Damon and Carlton!
Also, I am pretty sure that Pierre Chang is not saying the name "Jennifer" as some of the transcripts out there say. But it might just be that I can't hear it right for some reason.
No it is definately not Jenifer, I think it may be distorted or possibly reversed, let me see if I can do something with it.
Sounds like Slanisvar, or something similar, but I still think it has been scrambled somehow.
No it is Stanislar
Man this crowd is fast! Oh wait Zort and Ange are fast.
I agree about the name of the person Chang is speaking to. I used to think it was Jennifer, but it sounded very different on this video.
I agree Zort -- it's Stanislar. Strange name. Wonder what Sawyer could do with that one.
Stanislar is a family tree/genealogy search service.
Thanks Zort...I knew when I was doing the transcript that it wasn't Jennifer. I did a quick google and found lots of hits for the name Stanislar as a sirname and a couple as a first name. There's also a Saint Stanislar. Good ears Zort!
I've done some tinkering with the audio and it doesn't sound much better reversed or slowed.
I've sent a couple of audio clips to the admins just in case they want to use them.
It may possibly be Stanislav
From doing a quick Google search there are lots of people with the first name Stanislav.
Sorry correction *Saint Stanislas which is Polish.
Has anybody checked the audio in the "interference" of the chang video? A few of the staticky parts sound like someone is saying something that is not part of what the video is "really" about.
Stanislav Petrov seems to have saved the world from a Nuclear strike / retaliation in an "Incident" in 1983.
I'm afraid I have to go now, I'm tired and I should have gone to bed a long time ago. If someone hasn't analysed it by tomorrow I'll try and do it then.
I step away from the computer for a couple of hours and look what happens! Going to watch now.
Well I wish I could do something to help re: the static, but I don't have the knowhow or technology.
My fav part was DL saying he would sacrifice Carlton Cuse...LOL
Question: so if our Jess4ua didn't give us the info, who is the Jess4ua who did?
hi!
Thanks, capcom, for the indication of Atlantis. On Wikipedia I found the following text:
It turns out that the King Cronus (Edgar Stehli) is being manipulated by an ambitious usurper, Zaren (John Dall), using an evil sorcerer (Frank DeKova) who wishes to use the resources of Atlantis to take over the world.
The king is "Cronus", there's someone trying to use the "resources" of the island in a wrong way and, of course, there's a volcano on Atlantis!
That's what I was thinking too Simone. :-D
It sounded very Dharma-like the way they started out doing good things for mankind with their technology (power crystals!) and then it all went to their heads. And of course time/Cronus, like you said. :-) Neat.
FYI, I posted some pix that I took from the movie today on my blog, to show how similar it looked to our frozen wheel.
link
Simone, that sounds very much like The Tempest as well.
Great! thank you!
I was just looking for pictures around, but I found almost nothing.
Just another, probably useless, observation: it's about the buttons on DWY site ("Leader board", "Progress", "My profile"). They move in a strange way, sometimes in one direction sometimes in the other, sometimes becoming smaller or greater - as if they were moving in a 3dimensional space... Oops! 4dimensional, if you add - of course - TIME in which they move!
But probably is nothing. I'm new to the game, I fell totally in the fake Duane fever, and I don't know exactly where and how to find new clues! If there are any so far...
Just trying to dig deeper in the same hole: there is also a movie named Lost Continent (1951), and here's the synopsis on IMDB:
Major Joe Nolan heads a rescue mission in the South Pacific to recover a downed atomic rocket. The crew crashlands on a mysterious island, and spends much time rock-climbing. They meet up with a native girl, a big lizard, and some dinosaurs...
Ok, maybe there are no great lizards (but great bears!) and no dinosaurs (but black smokes...)
And, just to add buzz (sorry, I'll try to be more useful in the future!), there's also a Lost Continents Production!
Yes, I noticed that odd floating effect as well on DWY.
capcom, that movie is showing again at 10:45 PM Eastern time tonite on TCM. I think I'll watch it. (I posted on your blog)
simone, interesting about Lost Continent. I know I'm also looking at the DWY site and trying to find new things. I noticed the buttons hovering, too. You can also highlight the Dharma Initiative button on the top right, but nothing happens.
I think we're all ready for SOMETHING TO HAPPEN!
FYI, the login on DWY is case-sensitive. I just tried it.
Where is Fenris when we need him, he is an audio genius!!
Or BellyOfDesire for that matter?
Neat, Simone and Codysmom. :-D
Right now I'm reading WLM's arctic theory on Lostpedia, in case anyone needs something to pass the time with till the game winds up again. I always dismissed that thought, but WLM makes it sound intriguing. I'm with-holding jumping on that bandwagon tho until I give it a lot of thought (and, finish reading it).
link
thanks for the link, capcom. I'll check it out after "So, you think you can dance" :)
So I've got a question. Let's assume that it's present day (2004-2008) Daniel who is filming Pierre Chang. Why would Daniel want to help him get out a message to reconstitute the DI or to go back in time to change things? Why does Daniel Faraday care about the DI and their time traveling bunnies?
I'm more inclined to think it's a pre-Island Daniel Faraday that is helping Chang. He doesn't have to be contemporaneous with Chang i.e. 1978. He could 1996 Daniel who has met with Desmond and sent Eloise into the future. Or he could be any other point in time before Dec. 2004. I just don't understand why the Daniel we've seen on the Island so far would help the DI.
I almost even wonder if this is a post-Purpling pre-Freighter Daniel who was doing research on the Island before leaving on this mission for Widmore. Maybe if Widmore told him that DI was good, Ben was bad. I need you to go see how to stop the gas, etc. But even then, the Dan we see in Nov. 2004 when 815 is found doesn't seem capable of such intelligence gathering.
Good questions Memphish. To your last paragraph I say "yes". :-)
To the preceding Q, I would just guess (for now) that he could be following a fraternal code of scientists, as an obligation to help another comrade in a scientific bind. I can imagine in a story that some scientists absorbed with their work could not resist getting involved. As for the non-science part, i.e. the humanitarian aspect, sometimes Daniel just seems like a tender guy who wants to help and keep the peace.
Just a guess. But I have no clue as to "what kind" of Daniel is in 1978...old, young, backwards, forwards, who knows?! :-o
I can see Daniel being pro-Dharma and anti-Ben. As a scientist, he would love the opportunities to study the properties of the island. Maybe Widmore is the one reconstituting the DI and will give Daniel free-reign to work his experiments.
angesaid:
Also, I am pretty sure that Pierre Chang is not saying the name "Jennifer" as some of the transcripts out there say. But it might just be that I can't hear it right for some reason.
I couldn't understand the earlier versions, but this new clearer version sounds like he say "D**n it Laura just take him outside, please." But I could be wrong.
Listening to the Secret Candle video again, I have to agree with whomever said that it sounds like there's two people with Chang...one assertive guy and then Danny-boy's soft voice.
Oh Sayid's Girl! I think that makes sense!
Zort was kind enough to isolate that particular part of the clip an even reverse it. He sent it in, but I don't have anywhere to host the sound file to add it to the post, so hopefully Dennis can do something with it.
Maybe the assertive guy is Miles. But of course that would shoot down the theroy that Miles is Pierre's baby son.
10 minutes until Burn Notice and that cute Michael Weston. But in the meantime I'm listening to the film with my headphones and Chang might be saying "damn it Laura; just take him out please."
So Capcom, do you think the guy talking about it being useless and turning this off is someone other than Daniel? There are some other places where they may be a different voice, but also the cuts blur Chang and Faraday's voices.
And here's the next million dollar question -- what's with the aliases? Why would Dharma have this Chang guy use 3 different names and why does Chang assume we know his real name?
Oh wow, I'll have to listen again with that in mind. Gee, that would be weird if it was Miles. And in that case Chang would be shouting to keep them separated, heheh.
And I agree, it does sound like "da**itt Laura", etc.
Chang must think that after the purge the world somehow found out about what went on there. Or whoever is getting the message has inside intel about Dharma and who was there.
I wonder if the aliases are part of the mind games that Dharma was involved in like the observation experiments where the notebooks when to a big pile in the middle of nowhere? Or so if the recruits spoke to each other about the orientation films they might not identify that it was the same doctor?
And with that it's time for Fear Itself...
Yes, it sounds to me like the first voice who says, "None of that matters," is farther away from the mic. Then the Daniel-sounding guy says it too.
My guess on the aliases would just be in keeping with all the secrecy of the DI in their missions. Secret stations, secret missions, aliases to keep people from knowing who they're working with, I guess.
Chang does say "no more games", regarding his name. So why games?
Also, I agree that there are two different people filming him, although it could just be an echo of sorts.
I wonder who the intended recipient for the video is?
You know, more just came to me. If Chang were sending it to someone in the DI, they would already know his real name for sure and he wouldn't be playing games with them. If he were sending it to us, how would he even know we saw the orientation video. Which leaves the thought that maybe someone else from the island escaped. One of the people there that knew him as Marvin Candle - the orientation dude.
I am disregarding the fact that with time travel he could know anything, since that leaves nothing to discuss.
Mikhail is on Burn Notice!
jess4ua
I vote Kelvin because I miss him. :)
Awesome Memphish, going to check it out now! :-D
It could be Desmond who is the other voice we hear because Faraday knows (now) that he is his constant.
As far as playing "games", the DI definitely had a select group of people who knew about the "special properties" of the island, while most of the Dharma people did not.
memphish said...
Mikhail is on Burn Notice!
sweet! I miss Patchy!
checking in for email, hi guys!
xxoo
Jess said Which leaves the thought that maybe someone else from the island escaped.
I'm pretty sure Charlotte and a Charlotte care giver escaped.
I wonder if the message is for Faraday. Faraday's memory is totally shot. They've been showing us that the entire of Season 4. So 30 years ago Faraday who knew that in 30 years his memory would be shot makes this video with Chang and sends it to himself. Maybe this is the real reason Widmore put him on the team, i.e. to keep him from receiving this message.
Faraday's use of his notebook reminds me of the guy from the movie Momento.
BTW, I think Frank Lapidus may be on Psych tomorrow night. I think I caught a glimpse of him in the preview.
I just watched the video again and I didn't hear "D*mn it Laura". I heard "Stanislar".
There are definitely at least two people there - you can see waht looks like the right shoulder/upper arm of a woman on the bottom left of the screen and the upper left arm of a man on the bottom right of the screen at the very beginning of the video.
Also, it did sound like 2 different male voices on the tape, but I think it was the Daniel-sounding voice at the end shutting off the machine.
Oh yeah, I also wanted to comment about the 16 years on the previous post. An anonymous poster said that we only have Danielle's word for it that she was there for 16 years. I disagree. The looping broadcast had been transmitting for 16 years according to Sayid's calculations. That and Alex's age I think pretty much confirm Danielle's story. At least about being on the island for 16 years.
Don't know that it'll amount to anything, but rukusguy is currently logged in to youtube...
Just adding a mere 2 cents to the video discussion:
Losit said: There are definitely at least two people there - you can see waht looks like the right shoulder/upper arm of a woman on the bottom left of the screen and the upper left arm of a man on the bottom right of the screen at the very beginning of the video.
I think those two people are just people viewing the video at Comic-Con.
Now I'm agreeing with most of you that Chang does say: "D**n it Laura." Laura Chang?
Memphish mentions why the alias names. Especially why are there 3 difference names (albeit waxy candle related)? Apparently, the DI made him use different names. Why was his real identity kept secret on the island?
There is also the question as to who this video was intended for. Obviously, someone who knew him as Chang. He just started giving his fake name without thinking, until he realized there was no point to it anymore. There was no more need for his identity cover-up. The general public (like us) wouldn't know him as Chang. Maybe the video was going to be taken by Faraday and was also going to be seen by Faraday. Maybe Faraday being on the team, and getting to the island is supposed to help him remember what he has been through in different time lines.
OT:Just in case anyone is interested, the total solar eclipse today will be streamed live:
live eclipse
xxoo
The voice of the cameraman seems definitely Daniel’s. I hope not to be wrong (because it’s kind of “my field” and it would be embarassing) but he has a strong British accent, and it seems to match quite perfectly (to my ears) to Daniel’s intonation and phonetic features. Actually, the pronounciation of “useless” (with a strong pitch on [‘ju-], bigger than I could expect from him), gives me some doubts. But the first intervention (“just get to it”) seems definitely his.
About 1 or 2 persons beyond the camera: when interrupted, Chang looks always in ONE direction. This makes me think that there is just ONE other person (who’s speaking) in the room.
But there are other voices overlapping during the statics, and interferences that bend the tones of voices and reduplicate some words or sounds (this could be give the perception of 2 persons instead of 1).
I think I could see also a picture coming out of the frame (an outdoor picture, leaves, maybe a tree) during the static between “Einstein field equation” and “if I can keep this pinhole...”.
I've put the sounds files I sent last night at :
Forwards
Backwards
I found a wiki reference to a Laura Chang who was born in Seattle and who has been the science editor of The New York Times since 2004.
I'm sure it doesn't mean anything but the fact she's been a science editor since 2004 seemed ironic. :)
Hey Gang, I just added the sound files Zort worked up onto the main post in little players so you can click and play them there if you like.
I really think that name might be a hint or clue to something to come (TV or game dunno) because why bother with the name at all if it weren't?
Octagon Global Recruiting's site now takes you directly to Dharmawantsyou.com. Maybe we'll get some more movement soon.
You know after Dan Bronson's actions at ComicCon I wonder if he is Ruckus Guy or just working with Ruckus Guy. I'd think he'd been kicked out of the recruitment process after his illicit video. Should we be looking for the other 4 recruits?
They are remaking Picture of Dorian Gray. We talked about that with Richard Alpert a while back.
So Pierre Chang was Pierre Chang presumably when he was at Michigan. That means the DeGroots and any other Michigan DI recruits would know him by that name.
Chang told the people at The Swan his name was Marvin Candle. The people at The Swan were stuck there for 3 years and presumably had no first hand contact with Chang/Candle.
Chang told people at The Orchid that his name was Halliwax. The way he talks about them having to lie to their family and colleagues about the true nature of the Orchid implies that those workers lived at The Barracks or some other communal center on the Island where people stationed elsewhere worked. The fact that Chang's specialty was theoretical astro-physics and that he's operating with a pinhole suggests that his primary station should be the Orchid. Or does it? I'm not good at the science stuff.
And then Chang told the people at The Pearl his name was Wickmund. Those people definitely lived in the Barracks according to that video.
So my question then is did Chang live at the Barracks or somewhere else? If he lived at the Barracks what name did he use and was calling him Wickmund another "lie" the Orchid employees were instructed to use? Furthermore if he lived at the Barracks why is his first instinct in this video to use the name Candle? Finally, or was it the case he lived elsewhere like at the Flame in isolation?
I have a couple of questions that I haven't had time to research...and before looking, it seemed prudent to ask!
We have noticed that the Halliwax jacket that Ben wears has the "updated" Dharma logo when he materializes in the desert.
Does anyone know if 1) the logo was updated in the prior scenes in the Orchid with Locke? and 2) the logo was updated (or even visible) and any of the prior "Pierre Chang" videos?
Another question: Have we agreed on a spelling for Pierre's last name? Should it be "Cheng" or "Chang" or something else? Also, do we know what the name looks like in Chinese characters? Just a curiousity...
Thanks! And if there are no handy answers, I will do my own scrounging later...just trying to save time re-covering ground.
Torifan -- the actor confirmed that the name is Pierre Chang. I read that on either Doc Arzt or DarkUFO. I can't remember which.
I'm going to look at the Halliwax coat now.
Here's the Orchid symbol on the video. That's the old DI logo. Here's Ben in the coat pre-turning. And Here's Ben in the desert in 4.09. I don't see the new logo at all. Only the old one. Do you have a link to something else Torifan?
Good questions Memphish. . .my mind goes down this road.
If they were recruiting from the scientific community. . .
And if Pierre Change was known for his expertise in time travel experimentation. . .
And if the Orchid experiments were the most top secret of all the experiments at Dharma. . .
I'm thinking maybe the name games were intentional. If everyone is busy speculating in the gossipy corners as to whether he's really Candle, Halliwax, or Wickmund, maybe they are distracted enough to not realize that he's Pierre Chang.
Sorry Torifan. I see what you are saying now. The symbol on the coat in terms of the cuts in the bagua do change from in the Orchid to in the desert.
Here are some better links. I hope.
Ben in Orchid.
Ben in Desert
The bagua on Ben's coat in the desert does not exactly match the DWY bagua either though. For example, the bottom section on Ben's coat is solid and on DWY has a one notch from the top. The bottom right is different as well as is the top one.
I also hear Dammit Laura.
Wierd about the baguas.
I'm official
Good work on the symbols, Memphish. And good questions about why the 3 different names. There has to be a clue or reason for this. Obviously, a DI member using 3 different names in 3 different films/hatches has to have some meaning. And Chang couldn't walk around the Barracks if various people would know him by different names. Maybe we haven't seen this couch he is sitting on before because he is separated from everyone else and was isolated like the Flame. But why couldn't he just be known at Pierre Chang? To me, this is the biggest question.
memphish, maybe the question isn't where Chang is living on the island.... maybe it's when
And, darn it, I've got out-of-town company coming any second so I'll try to be back later tonight.....
Guys, I'm pretty sure that the dharma symbol on the coat is just rotated.
If you look, all the cuts are in the same positions, just rotated about 90 degrees...
Wow there's good discussion today. I have only gotten about a third of the way through, but wanted to say:
Thrasher- I was thinking about BellyofDesire recently. I thought he might join us again for this ARG, but I guess not so far. And where is Fenris? Usually he's got some good info for us by now.
re: Daniel- I have to wonder if he's always been as meek and sensitive. The first time we really got a taste of his sensitivity was when he started to cry when hearing about 815. I have to wonder if some of his reactions are related to things he knows about that we aren't privvy to yet. I feel sure he has some connection to the island previous what we've seen last season. I just wonder what it is/when it was.
re: what Chang says- stanislar vs. d***n Laura- I thought I heard "Laura" yesterday when I listened to it to, but I could also see how it could be stanislar. I guess the jury will be out on that for a bit.
Ok going to try to catch up on the rest.
Maybe Chang hung out mostly at the Orchid and went by Halliwax. But it seems like the video was taken from a house (@The Barracks?) So I don't know how all that fits together.
And- it still doesn't answer the question why he would assume that whoever is watching the latest video would know that his name was Chang and not Marvin Candle. Maybe whoever above suggested that Kelvin escaped the island is right. Maybe the video was intended for Kelvin. That would explain why he started to introduce himself as Candle then said that by now (whoever) would know that that was an alias. Kelvin would probably care about the DI scientists. I think there has been speculation among the LOST community (although I can't remember where or why exactly) that Kelvin could still be alive and off island.
Great comments everyone!
Good thought about 'Memento' Memphish. That could be what TPTB are doing. PhDs do usually do have sacred portable notebooks that they carry around with them all the time, so that just looked normal to me, but the 'Memento' thing could be the case here on the show.
I think the Orchid was probably Chang's primary job on the island as well. And if he was the head scientist, he probably also got the task of orientation for science projects. That's kind of how it work's in a lab.
I'm just going to put it down to all the island secrecy in general for Chang's aliases, till further info appears. If he was a well known scientist in his field in the Lost universe/reality, they might want to keep it a secret that he was there, so no one would know that they were working on something in his field of expertise on the isalnd. Think about The Manhattan Project....until the project was comleted, none of those scientists could tell where they were working or what they were working on. That's why they moved their wives and kids out to live at Los Alamos too, if the had any.
It seems as if Daniel has become more passive, or scatterbrained (I mean that in the nicest way Danny!) as time has passed since whatever timespace thing he's experienced over the years.
Maybe Chang is saying, "Dalai Lama..!" J/K! :o) It's confusing about what Chang says, because it definitely sounds like it begins with an "s", but maybe it's just a hiss. There's a hiss after he says it too.
Again, great critical thinking here LoCos! :-D
Good thoughts Sayidsgirl. I'm not sure though that it means that whomever Chang is speaking to in the vid, already knows his name. He might just be saying, "You know, forget this, my name is really Chang. There, I said it! Phooey on you DI!"
I apologize for asking a lot of questions, but y'all have been very helpful with your answers.
So, I have another.
I was looking at the old Dharma logo, from one of the links memphish provided, and it occurred to me, that the cuts and lines look a bit like dots and dashes.
So, then I wrote the symbols out in a row on a piece of paper, and they look even more like dots and dashes.
Anyway, I was really just wondering, has anyone ever tried to determine if the Dharma logo is really a morse code message?
Just curious. I don't have the skill to do anything WITH this, mind you, but I thought it was kinda interesting.
Torifan, Here's the Lostpedia page about the logo including info. on the trigrams and a link at the bottom to a binary theory.
Hi everyone!
About the names: why Candle? The "Swan" video is dated 1980... but it surely is a second version. If the video with the fake name has been made AFTER this last video where he says his real name, it would be strange! It's like Spiderman confessing he is Peter Parker before the spider bite.
Solution 1: the first version of the "Swan" video is BEFORE or in 1978 - and maybe the other Orientation films not. So, it's quite normal that it comes to his mind that alias.
Solution 2: the last video with Pierre Chang IS NOT 30 years back in the past, but for some reason they made some mistakes and we got the message BEFORE the right time. And now the problem is: then what's the date 17 July 1978 for?
Knock yourself out, Torifan, heheh. Just kidding! :-D
That's a good idea. The way that we found things out in TLE1, was to approach everything from all the angles possible. Do you mean to take each line and go around, reading them in a continuous line?
Here's another time travel show from the BBC.
Thrixman, the new Dharma logo is merely rotated 1/4 turn clockwise. The question then is why did it turn on Ben's Halliwax coat when he turned the donkey wheel.
And here's my further question -- is this in fact the answer. The wheel is turned, we move forward 2 blocks (of the 8) so to speak. If we turn the wheel 3 more times will we be back at the beginning?
Check out the theory on the turning bagua vs. the FDW over a DarkUFOs OGR page, there was a good post on that, yesterday or the day before. It involves turns, and key slots, etc. Pretty cool.
OK, I'm going to see "Brideshead Re-re-revisited" at the arthouse theater, don't let anything exciting happen without me! :-o
Which way is the dharma symbol on the polar bear collar turned? I guess I can go look myself instead of being lazy.
Clockwise Lost 2010
memphish said... The bagua on Ben's coat in the desert does not exactly match the DWY bagua either though. For example, the bottom section on Ben's coat is solid and on DWY has a one notch from the top. The bottom right is different as well as is the top one.
The bottom section isn't solid - it says Dharma - so it still could be the notched section.
After detailed analysis, I think the Desert logo is probably a prop error, because while some of sections fit the 90 degree turn, some don't, some are missing, and some are duplicates.
If we number the Orchid sections clockwise from the top, the jacket sections are in the following order:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 (ORCHID)
7, 8, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (ORCHID 90 deg)
3, 8, 1, 5, ?, 4, 5, 6 (DESERT)
DESERT NOTES:
• There is no 2 or 7.
• 5 is a duplicate.
• The ? could be 3 or 4 - either way it would be a duplicate.
So does that mean the dharma bear collar matched one of them or not? I didn't make it over there to look - I got distracted with my actual job - silly me.
The Polar Bear collar has the standard layout - same as the Orchid, Swan, etc.
Thanks Dennis.
I thought maybe if it was turning each time the donkey wheel turned, the polar bear collar would be at a different alignment.
Memphish Said...Here's another time travel show from the BBC.
Just a point of order, that although it's shown on BBC America, it is actually produced by ITV in the UK, which is the BBC's biggest rival.
The UK TV market is so screwy it amazes me that they don't all just go and find a big bucket, pour in all the programs and just draw them at random to be shown at any time they please.
I'm so glad I have Sky+ (PDVR) to record everything and watch when I want. I haven't watched anything "live" for many a year now, apart from LOST of course !
I hope that didn't offend Zort! ;-)
Sorry, it's late on Friday and I've had a few drinks after a hard week at work.
I've been trying to direct the progress on our extension. Details here
ive listened to the new candle video several times and im convinced that Dan faraday is the camera man, 30 yrs in the past. If dan and his magic hournal are gonna be so important, i feel that we might be too presumptious to think the island went 200 days in the fututure as ben did. I also have theorized before that the island could only move foward i the future or else it would land on itself in the past so to speek,, i compared it to nightcrawler from the x-men bamfing into a solid object like a boulder. This lead me to think that ben indeed sabotagued the the modern part of the orchid, but if it is indeed faraday in the past, he must have either fixed the modern part of the orchid or at least learned how to set the donkey wheel to the right coordinates. It would make sense that dan would be the only one bedsides candle to be able to harness the negatively charged exitic matter, since he is the closest field of scientist to marvin candle. This also got me thinking that dan and richard may travel back 30's on the island together... thoughts listen to the new clip id bet my ass thats farday filming the candle warning
The voice might be Jeremy Davies, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is Daniel Faraday.
What if it's Mr. Faraday, Daniel's dad? They would probably sound the same. Daniel's dad could have been Dharma and died in the purge, which might explain Daniel wanted to find the island.
Oh, I like that idea. Daniel's dad died in the purge while Annie was getting all the Dharma babies off the island. Daniel, Miles, Kate, Hugo, Charlotte. . . .
I like that idea Dennis and Lost2010! Maybe Daniel inherited that notebook from his Dad and is trying to make sense of it!
Nice Lost2010 -- Kate, Hugo.
Gee, this is so slow! I will check in on Monday, have a great weekend all.
Peace & Namaste!
I have a thought - maybe you already thought of that, but I'm a bit slow!
Suppose that the symbol on Ben's coat in the desert is 90° rotated - as it seems. Suppose that the symbol of Dharma has a strong connection with the wheel.
I've thought that a patch on a coat cannot turn itself for its own will, so... What if Ben changed not only the present, but also the past by turning the wheel? What if Ben's coat is just a sign of the different position of the wheel at the time when DI first arrived on the island?
What if, in this different timeline created by the rotation of the wheel (which is "dangerous" in a hardly understandable way, maybe so dangerous as to change the past), the Dharma has never been suppressed, and they still exist in their new form - the form we're playing in?
Why Van Eeghen was showing that video to the chosen recruits? Because this was the call for a mission or was it a trace of a past-that-could-have-been?
numbers always give a thrill: previous comment was n. 108!
Hey Simone, you're #108!
I"m not sure what you're saying here, do you mean parallel times?
BTW, what you wrote before about speech was very interesting. :-)
Someone over at the SpoilerTV-OGR forum wrote this:
"It has just occurred to me that OGR and Dharma are two distinct companies. "On behalf of The DII, OGR is currently seeking volunteers..." The OGR emails have messages from Bronson and he probably works for OGR. I was assuming he was a Dharma insider. Is this reasoning wrong? Does this make a difference?"
I would kind of like to get this straight in my head too. OGR is working for the DI. What are we taking the test for then, working for the OGR to help get the DI back on board "to do good for the world"?
Thanks for any clarification anyone can offer. :-)
I like the way you're thinking Simone. I think the fact that Ben's parka symbol changed does have something to do with this new Dharma. I think there may be 8 options, one corresponding to each alignment of the bagua and of the donkey wheel.
In fact maybe this is the explanation of the 16 years of Danielle and Alex and Horace's claim of 12 years of dead. Chang seems upset enough that I'd theorize he thinks the Purge is imminent, not 18 years in the future. So maybe Danielle's team which is rumored to be studying time if Season 1 script revisions are to be trusted turned the wheel resulting in some reset that meant DI wasn't purged until 12 years ago.
I can't quite work out I mean. I don't think Ben's turn of the wheel will bring the on Island DI back to life for another go at things, but maybe I do mean that. Maybe that's the "bad thing" that happens is that the wheel is turned, DI rises from the dead and things are set in motion for the next iteration of the Purge or possibly the avoidance of the Purge.
Yeah, I'm grasping at straws here waiting for something else to happen. :-)
Memphish - I think you're making sense.
If the island really can jump forward in time, then there aren't necessarily 30 years between 1978 and 2008. But Pierre would have still said he was sending his message 30 years into the future if it was 1978 in his mind.
Alex has aged chronologically 16 years but we don't know for sure that she wasn't born in 1978 or 2046, do we? We only know that she seems to have experienced a total of 16 years.
I'm still not sure how Locke defines "very bad things". Or even Jack for that matter.
Whatever theory can happen time-wise within our new Kerr Metric time-spheres application I can get behind.
I guess I'll give in and go read about the Kerr Metric time-spheres. I'm sure a headache is forthcoming. . .
Okay - I get time loop out of that. And time loop always puts me in mind of Jack lying on the beach among the bamboo.
Hey - what if it wasn't the island that went time traveling. What if it was the chopper? Because it wasn't in the sky when Sawyer and Juliet looked back at the freighter. . .
Well, you have a point there. In the Kerr app, relatively you could say that I guess. But the helo is in the "now" outer sphere, while the island is moving around on one of the moving spheres inside the outer one. Yoiks.
The thing is - if it comes back to the exact same time and place - it wouldn't appear to disappear. It might have blinked away for a second but it would have been right back there for them to crash into. Or am I reading it wrong. . .
That's sort of how I take it too, as per "The Time Machine" movie. But as in that movie, the machine would disappear physically when "moved" in time, and then return to position (or what ever position it ended up in after it got relocated in the future) when it came back to it's original "present location".
As yet, I haven't read anything on how a person/island/entity could return to the outer spere of time if they wanted to. Hmmmm. Interesting point, and requires more research.
I have a question. Did anyone actually hear Marvin say the words years or future? Because I didn't. But I don't always catch everything in these videos.
It is logical to assume he said 30 years in the future.
But if he didn't. It could be 30 seconds, minutes, hours, days or months. And it could be future or past.
Just wondering.
Love everyone's talk about the 30 years, time loops, Kerr-Metric theories, etc. Everything is way over my head no matter how much I try to read up about it! LOL I'm now accepting time travel/time looping, people coming and going from different years, etc. And I'm just going along with the ride!
Sayid's Girl -- Here's the link to Ange's transcript of the Chang video. It says 30 years and I think the way he says "internet" instead of "the internet" makes it pretty clear he means in the future. He also says the American president "is" not "was" or even "will be". BTW you can clearly hear 30 years on the video that's attached to this post.
heres the octagon global superimposed over froxen donkey wheel near perfect match...
http://bp1.blogger.com/_DYqiJ6Fbnp8/SJEvk4lLtNI/AAAAAAAAA58/EBpViAdab2A/s1600-h/Wheel_theory.JPG
i like the muppet babies, ooops i mean dharam babies thing, but i still think its dan not his dad. what is candle's source of bush info the purge and interweb. If it was just a simple video they were making for a time capsule why did candle seem so freaked out and rushed and why did they say they'd only get one shot. I think a lot of you ar ein for a surprise this year with hawkins course corrections going out the window, and possible alternate past's somewhat related to desmond already going back in time twice. Candle even says that they might even be able to prevent the purge somehow. I figure the changeing tableau that is lost will be refellected in dans journal. I've always stuck to th eidea that dans journal never ssaid desmond was his constant until desmond started time tripping on the heliecopter, prolly why neither recognized each other before desmond went to the freighter. tptb already stated his journal will be uber important to season five. If you think about it dan is more unstcuk in time than desmond, why else would he cry at the news of 815 or not do well on the card test. I think the card test that charlotte gave his was a precog test, and the fact that only 2 of 3 were right points to the timeline already having shifted somewhat, maybe dan and charlotte were trying a coure correct or maybe they want things to change, still to be determined..
i also leave room for the theory that ben is candles source of future info, i beleive that ben traveled to tunesia 2005 from the island 1990, about two weeks before sayids wife was killed, the registrar from the hotel seems to prove that. He found out how everything was gonn a shake out and went back to 1990, he went along with the purge in hopes of reconstatutuing the dharma intiative much later, much as ben has said he went along witht he purge to stay alive
Hi 2costa. I think that Chang's rush (without going back to re-listen) is the rush to get the vid done and to where ever, before the closing of the pinhole.
I'm beginning to think that there is something specific that has to be done, to avoid the purge. Otherwise, now that they know about it, why not just do something like bring more guns to the island to wipe out the hostiles, now that the DI knows what they will do? Or, say, gas the Hostiles before they gas the DI? Gas unto others before they gas unto you??? :o)
You know, to avoid repeating "The incident" they were forbidden to try to communicate with other stations. You don't suppose sending this message causes the incident.
Sort of a self-fulfilling loop.
They're in a rush because they figure they have to send the message before "the incident" occurs, but sending the message actually causes "the incident".
Thanks memphish
I figured it probably was 30 years in the future, it only makes since. Especially with references being in the future.
But I didn't actually hear those words.
oops I'm sorry years is obvious to hear it's just the word future that I don't hear.
I don't know with the time travel concept I qestion the relevancy of time. Thirty years for the people they are sending this to could only be a few year for Marvin himself. Or more or less ahhhhh! lol :)
Good point Lost2010, I have always very much believed (in life, not LOST) in the idea of, "beware of creating a self-fulfilling prophesy for yourself". Sometimes you can make something happen to yourself by fearing it too much.
Or, someone in a station just got type-happy and accidently plugged into the intranet pathway to the Orchid equipment and BOOM, started up the vault.....when there was some non-organic objects in it. :o)
BTW, I'm going on vacation tomorrow for a few days, and already I miss you guys terribly just thinking about it!!!!! :-(
You're the best internet friends! XO
OK, mush off now.
Have fun!
Tx, it'll be bittersweet without you all. But hopefully something will happen at OGR or with RG during that time, sheesh. I wonder what will happen next.
Have a good time capcom!!
Have a great trip Capcom!
I'm off to England very early on Monday so I will be gone too (but will hijack a computer from time to time I'm sure). Not that I have been posting much...it's a lot of work to get ready for a big over the ocean trip LOL.
Hope everyone enjoys their weekends/weeks/vacations, and that DWY gets busier.
Bon voyage to two of our best posters: Capcom and Ange!
Have a great trip Capcom and Ange!
Ange, have fun in England. If you are up Birmingham way let me know.
Capcom have fun on holiday.
Has anyone thought that the incident might have been Dharma, or someone from a station, turning the wheel ?
The 108 minute button pressing exercise could suppress the islands ability to time travel ?
Thanks LoCos! And you have fun and a safe trip too Ange!
Gosh Zort, what a great idea. I can see it now, "Hey, what's this turning thing down there....uhoh." And then they tap into the source for the wheel and whoops, now they have to keep a very tight lid on it by depressurizing it, so to speak. It could happen! :-D
Have a good trip to England ange.
I think that it's highly possible that ben brought the video tape with him to tunisia when he went there from 1990, or more likely candle was in a hurry to make the video so that somebody could hide it somewhere off island in 1977 or whatever, then someone like ben could bring it to light in the future maybe the first time he went to tunisia or the second time two weeks later (as per hotel sign in book).
Ben's baton makes sense as far as a perfect orchid traqel weapon, if you can't take metal in the orchid with you when you travel, then a composite baton would seem like a nice orchid travel companion.
Another thought I had was the producers always say how matt fox was gonna die in the pilot, what if this plays into the mythology, whay if as i said many times this whole drama on the island is playing out for a second time or third, ect. What if the first time around jack didn't make it and certain people he saved on the island like charlie or whoever changed the course of things the second time around, What if the reason jack seemed placed down in the jungle in the pilot is because he was placed there to change things. Might also explain his sometimes unreasoinable drive to get off the island...
that would jive with the whole via domus ending...
I'm just thinking that there are multiple time lines and time loops and people are coming and going all the "time". Some people know about what's happening(Ben, Daniel) and some people don't (Jack). And some people are learning about it (Locke). And people are in different time loops at the same time.
Good thinking Maven- we know that Horace was probably in a time loop when John encountered him building the cabin, so it's highly likely that what you say could be true IMHO!
xxoo
whew! I'm back now, had to go on an errand, so I didn't have time to say before, Ange and Capcom, I hope you both have a wonderful time!!! Be safe, and come back soon-we'll miss you!
xxoo
2Costa, wazzup! I love your wheel theory! That pictures match, like 100%! Super awesome!
Now if only there was more to do here.
Have a nice trip Capcom and Ange! (I'm Jealous!)
If anyone missed this, please check it out, 2Costa has a nice theory going here, with the Wheel Theory. Check it out!
If anyone missed this, please check it out, 2Costa has a nice theory going here, with the Wheel Theory. Check it out!
thanx thrash, it wasnt my theory, but they do match up super nice. The time loop thing may explain why ben seemed sooo sure keamy wouldn't harm alex. Part of why he asked keamy later if widmore directly ordered her to be killed(he wanted to know if widmore knowingly broke the rules or if keamy was an agent of chaos). Yes we all know it's because of "the rules", but i think because she is ben's daughter is not the rule. More likely its against the rules because, alex wasnt meant to die then(the island wasn't done with her yet) just as it seemed christain as letting mike die not the island, I think that certain people like jacob or christain control what the island seems to want. Locke is always doing things he thinks the island wants, but ben is doing what jacob wants. Either jacob is the island or one of the two is being duped. It would seem impossible to kill someone the island wasn't done with, unless the rules are ben and widmores ways of making fate seem to play out. If you notice on the island at least ben has never taken anybodys life directly by his own hand, if circusmstances let someone die then so be it, but he never does the grim reaper's work for him, maybe that ties to the rules. maybe simply ben or widmore is not allowed to kill anyone that lived through events or the time loop the first time around, the rules could be that simple. Maybe widmore was saying ben killed alex, because ben was simply exploiting a loophole in the rules setting up other people to kill each other like charlie killing ethan or ana killing goodwin, hence making widmore think ben is responsible for alex's death by being the first to break the rules.
another thing i was thinking is that perhaps the reason dan is so unstuck in time seeming in the past is that he was caught on the outskirts of the islands sphere of influence when it got transpported at the end of the season, right on the edge of the islands field is what triggered desmonds unstuck helicopter ride, and if you take timeout of the equation once something happens to you like that, it would effect you at all points in your lifetime like slaghterhouse five or quantum leap. sam on quantum leap could only pop into bodies that were within his life tine. For instance sam would never pop into the 1880's. Quantum physics is the key to it all, its the science of perpesective. the endless possablitliteis of differnt vantage points and perspectives, but within a certain framewerk, change the perspective in quantum physics and you have changed the framework...
FYI: I wrote to Jesse Heiman (the actor playing Dan Bronson/RuckusGuy) on Facebook:
Here is his reply. He seems to be very succinct! LOL
I can't see the message Maven. It's taking me to my inbox.
2costa,
Nice theory about the "rules". One thing, though - Ben did kill someone with his own hands - he killed Keamy.
I agree about Dan being on the edge of the island's influence, though. Kind of an "event horizon" type of thing.
Just thought you might want to check out the blog where I post and we all discuss your adventures! It's part of The Lost Community group of great LOST fans!
The LOST ARGs
Source: www.lostargs.com
Jesse Heiman
Today at 11:46am
Ok
I guess a Facebook link takes you to your home inbox! So I copied the message. He just answered "OK".
If you're on FB, Memphish, friend me (Bonnie Green).
he is definately 100% saying Damnit Laura. i heard it clearly and understood it while watching the video
Does anyone think that the 'Volunteer Assessment Coming Soon' is a red herring and that we are supposed to be figuring out another puzzle in order to get things started ?
So something better happen today or Dharma, Hoodlum, ABC will have wasted all the goodwill they created via ComicCon. I'm tired of looking for something that doesn't seem to be there.
yep, me too Memphish! I'm veeerrry bored waiting for them...
xxoo
yes lostit he did kill keamy ,but thats after widmore broke the rules so i think BEn stopped following the rules as well by that time...
Why isn't this thing starting already?!?!?!?!
Time discrepancies being experienced. . . .weekly does not mean the same thing in the universe of the game as it does here where we are. . .
Maybe it'll start someday.
Chang meant to say "time is NOT of the essence; it is the essence."
Internet Movie Database(imdb) it sounds like to maybe he was still talk about the Internet alot use that site.
Well if it's like last week we'll get an update at around 11:15 p.m. eastern time, or so. That's around the time I checked in last week and people were saying the site was live.
At least I'm not going to expect anything before then.
Holy Crap! This is the slowest ARG ever. If something does not happen soon I am out, or at the very least lurking.
All I'm hoping is that we might relish this calm before the storm! LOL
Join hosts David A Dein and Steve "the goog" Guglich as they unlock and review the LostARG. In this episode David and Steve unpack all the events that have occurred so far, and Steve gets an unusal phone call for an unusal man? You'll have to listen to find out more.
If you'd like to be a guest on the podcast, have any theories, discover any clues, or just want to say hi, contact TLCpodcast@gmail.com (mp3 comments are accepted as well), or leave a voice mail or fax at (206) 202-3512.
Episode 1 - Do Or Die Cast Week 1
Will this tide you guys over while you wait??
Woohoo a shiny new podcast.
But seriously what is there to talk about since the last one ? However I do now know that David and the Goog can talk about anything at length !
It will do me for tomorrow as it is getting late here in the UK.
Thanks for the ARG summary, David and Steve, while we twiddle our thumbs!
Do we think something will happen tonight at 6pm PST? (Like it did in Find 815.)
WOW! I expected to come on here today and see how crazy things have been...but NO! Nothing yet?! (it was the kids' first day back to school and I'm exhausted- but somehow they aren't :P)
Surely TPTB/Hoodlum are going to do SOMETHING today, even if it is late.
Didn't they learn anything about the wrath of fans after the botches with TLE? They are not winning us over that's for sure. I'm really bummed, I wanted to relax and enjoy a nice ARG mystery after today. Oh well.
Guess this is a little too late, but Capcom and Ange- happy and safe travels to you both!!
Ange & Capcom,since you two left, ,it's been like watching grass grow,waiting for some ARG action to start. Have a great time. Don't turn any frozen donkey wheels on your travels.Come back safe, and sound;soon.
Be care out there, gang...Season 5 Spoilers and Rumors are starting to pop up. DocArtz has a post with spoilers. Don't get tempted out of boredom! LOL
Thanks maven for the spoiler alert.
If anything happens with this game tonight I don't know if I'll get to do it or not. I haven't been able to login since last week.
I'm currently staring at a white screen. oommm ;)
Thanks Maven.We wouldn't want those Spoilers to rain on our parade.
Bummer,Sayid's girl. That is terrible.Don't give up.
I have to get up in less than 6 hrs;so you West Coasters will have to keep watch.Good night all.
I'm not going to stay up until 11:15 again this week waiting for this game. If it's like last week, I'll have plenty of time to catch up and if not, well, it's sort of a win-win isn't it. . .
I'll hold down the fort! LOL
Hi guys, I thought for sure something would be new tonight! I keep checking Dharma Wants You, but nothing has changed.. waiting, waiting.... I'll help you hold down the fort, maven, since I'm def. a nite person!
Sayid'sgirl, that's weird you haven't been able to log on. Have you tried clearing your cache?
I guess the next possible "start" time will be 8:15PST. We'll see....
FWIW: Jesse Heiman is online on Facebook. Maybe he knows something is about to happen?
I'm sure you'll let me know, maven. I don't have facebook. I'm ready for SOMETHING to happen (lol, we all are!)
BTW, THANK YOU FOR THE PODCAST! It is helping me to wait... And I think it's great that you're making an audio archive of this ARG! I'm just having some audio problems with a lot of skipping, etc.
Well, there goes THAT theory (8:15)!
As I remember it was closer to midnight (eastern) that anything happened last time..
Hey peeps,
Long time no post, been real busy, but I am slowing down on purpose just to play the game.
Well greetings aside, What if this whole thing turns out to be Mittlewerks plan to finish what he started in TLE?
What if we are all running to work for that lunatic?
Wouldn't that be a hoot?... lol
codysmom
Yep cleared my cache.
The page doesn't seem to want to load. I get half the green loading bars and that's it.
If I go ahead and try to log in I get a white page.
That's weird, sayid'sgirl. I've been loading that page all day (looking for something new) with no problems. hmmmmmm
Hi ded! Yes, I've thought of the Mittlewerk connection and that maybe we don't want to work for this new Dharma... lol! BUT, if it's a continuation of the first arg, I'm all for it (how about a romance with ruckusguy and Rachel Blake... hehheheh)?
Hi guys...
I can't believe I'm STILL up, waiting for something to happen...hmmph!
I'm not happy...however, I am happy to be here. How are you guys?
xxoo
Hi ellen! That's about it... " not happy...however, I am happy to be here"
Just for fun I went to www.dharmainitiative.com/ and got a plain black page with these white words..
Final Preparations are being made.
Please note: this site has nothing to do with "World of Warcraft" and it is not affiliated with any other sites.
The page is called Diapause Cycle
NEW POSTS!!!!
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